AGPL, to prevent streaming (while not sharing the code).

yeah agree

Oh great. Now I’m losing hope in this project even more.

While I agree shopify has a kind of “mierda touch”, I still see it as if it goes sideways with them someone will just fork the code.

I agree that it’s not ideal, but hey, it’s open source, and the Louis Rossmann cult is the only other top-tier donor, so I’m sure they’ll be fine.

Also I’m very much cautious about them on anything browsing related. Discovered (after others also) they let their search-pages-in-a-shop get indexed.

Meaning I could go to Caterpillar, search for “Wabtec is better” and then this search url (with 0 products) would turn up in Google searches and that URL persisted. Text and all.

Basically one could spray-paint and tag sites with this graffiti. Shop admins didn’t even have means to remove it.

Problem ignored and stayed this way for months.

Do you have a source for that? I’m trying to look for donors but don’t really find anything.

It’s also made by Apple, so yeah.

It’s also open-source? Like, Microsoft created C# and Typescript. Google created Go. Those get used without people bringing up their origins. Hell, Rust Javascript* was created by a homophobe. What, do you think the license lets Apple close-source everyone’s code if they choose or something?

Sorry, I’m just really tired of these low-effort comments. The only thing that should matter is the language and if it hits the goals the project needs.

It is currently written in C++. They are looking to switch to Swift.

They looked into Rust but decided that GUI work was a pain and that they wanted something more object-oriented.

While Rust would probably have been a good choice for implementing a new browser, I don’t think Swift deserves the criticism it’s getting in this thread:

• Swift was created by the same person who created Rust, and has many of the same nice traits
• Swift is a modern language that is easy for plenty of developers to pick up; I’d place it in the same family as Rust and Kotlin
• Swift grants access to a large pool of native iOS/Mac developers

“More performant” citation needed. Very well written Rust might be extremely fast, yes, but Rust is also a hard language to get right. Swift is far from a slow language and I would not be surprised if the average rust programmer barely if at all manages to beat out the average swift programmer in terms of speed. As for the amount of programmers interested, hard to tell, but given the sheer amount of Swift devs I’d not be surprised if there were quite a few interested ones and I am unconvinced Rust programmers are statistically more likely to be interested in Browser development.

Proton and photon is just the Firefox browser’s GUI style. Proton is the previous one, photon is the current one where everything is bigger and curly.

Brands want to push their own style on people, to make themselves recognizable, and to push their ideas about UX to their users

That’s not a universal behavior though. There’s so many utilities and simpler apps made by indie developers or smaller companies that don’t care about this.

Yes it was

No /hj

I wouldn’t read too much into it. Using “he” instead of “it” is a mistake that a person might make if English is not their first language. It’s pretty easy to imagine that someone working on a browser would not be interesting in messing around with the pronouns in their build instructions. They made an error, and they didn’t think the error was important (which in itself was another error). But it is fixed now. Surely no harm done. They were not actively trying to impede anyone’s progress or deny anyone’s rights, or even say anything negative about anyone at all. They simply made a mistake in their use of pronouns in their build instructions. The mistake is now fixed. And although its fair to take it as a ‘warning’ that maybe there are objectionable views lurking in there, it certainly is not evidence of such views. I really don’t think it’s fair to hang this mistake over them. I’m sure that pretty much everyone in this thread has made worse mistakes throughout their lives. I know I certainly have.

you do not have money you are not hiring a 2000€/month artist

On the site I see like, one stock footage of a plant, one of a ladybird and some rando abstract graphics. What are you guys talking about here? Am I out of date? Should I ask for raise? (I’m not an artist but SW engineer, so probably not.)

For one, AI datasets often break copyright law, frequently appropriating from artists. Executives are also trying to use it to eliminate the jobs of artists, and I feel it’s wrong to try and obsolete something people love doing.

In addition, they take a lot of power, not helping in the way of the needed changes to follow climate goals.

Clarification: Copyright laws can be annoying, and I don’t always agree with them. However, it also protects smaller artists. I think there are many cases where piracy is totally fine, though, like if a company vaults an animated streaming show and gets rid of all other ways to watch it.

people who add AI features to shit like this are always the dumbest fucking people alive

you’re not some big tech company actually developing an AI assistant for your browser or OS it’s just a fake feature every time lol

if they’re already trying to pass off AI imagery as proof their project is robust, they will do the same with copypasted AI features every time

This was resolved and the PR was merged

Jumping to transphobic and misogynistic for not wanting to use inclusive language in some repo documentation is a big jump. He didn’t ever dead named anyone or refuse to use some person preferred pronoums. Its just not wanting to use inclusive language on documentation. Most, if not all, documentation I have ever read in my life don’t use the newest trend of inclusive language.

By they way accusations were written it seemed like devs were actually exposing hate speech or something like that.

Let’s not be like that, ok? At least I choose not be like that. You can destroy people lives with such accusations over basically nothing, be better.

I know that we are near Americans elections as it always makes the whole internet jumping, and throwing knives to find “the enemy”. But it could be as simple as inclusive language might be confusing for non english speakers, or might the trend change over time and it’s just a bother to keep updating with the lastest trend. Do you know how many versions of inclusive language did we have in my language? We started using ell@s, then ellxs, then ellos y ellas, then elles, then ellos, ellas y elles. It’s too volatile and little to be that mad over it. Specially when there’s people out there who truly hate anyone who is not a cis str male and is doing true hate speech over that.

If there’s more evidence of devs being evil, I will aknowledge it. But for such a little inconsequential thing (again it’s not even being against someone chosen pronoums, it’s just general documentation) I refuse to spread hate towards other human being.

It’s a one-time error the maintainer made 3 years ago (at a time when much of the US-influenced west was going crazy with polarization over the use of pronouns), not a consistent behavior of intolerance as one would expect given the level of hostility towards the project seen here. I personally find it weirder to hold such a long-standing grudge for a one-off error, and over a project one is not even personally involved with.

Like i said earlier, it was changed to they later, to the lead dev, in german they/them is a neopronoun, and “he” is gender neutral is those situations, i assume he thought it was the same in english

“real wierd vibes” is very far from “transphobia”.

Upgrading to gender neutral language is important.

Having a reflex to avoid politics, especially when you live in an environment where concepts like gender aren’t discussed, is understandable. It’s an attempt to do no harm that doesn’t have the expected impact. It still causes harm because simple problems like gendered language are treated with an allergic response. This is what happens when conservatives hyper-sensitize well-meaning people on social topics. Considering the world we live in, you can’t expect everyone to know how to flawlessly navigate these issues on the first try.

Their policy of “no politics” was misguided, but understandable. Everything is political. It was fashionable for decades to pretend otherwise. Many people grow up in an environment that ignores social topics. They need to be accepted into spaces where social topics are discussed, not immediately ostracized for not knowing the rules to a game they are new to.

I would like them to neutralize gendered assumptions in their documentation and learn from the experience, but that can only happen if they aren’t ostracized from the community. I want to give them a chance to learn and improve to disrupt Google’s unhealthy monopoly in the browser space.

The PR in question is also in error. It claims that the documentation assumed the gender of the user or the developer. A close reading of the requested commit reveals that the documentation instead assumes the gender of an example user named “anon” whose permissions are being altered. The documentation’s use of gender is in using a male as an example user needing their privileges deescalated. Still problematic, of course: not only men need their privilege checked from time to time.

i don’t even want to click your link because it says “unhinged dishonest activists”. i have literally only ever heard the worst people with the worst opinions ever say shit like that.

So you agree with the idea that submitting a “minor nitpick” PR suggesting that the software doesn’t refer to all users as male is “personal politics” and deserves an angry response for even suggesting it?

You sure do sound like someone who would agree with Lunduke…

Being a woman or being transgender isn’t “political”. Vocally opposing inclusiveness is asshole behavior.

Not even mad that he’s not accepting a low-effort PR. It’s trivializing people’s existence as “political” that makes him shitty.

It wasn’t right for people to bandwagon and harass the project, but that doesn’t mean he was right for closing this PR in the way he did. Him closing this PR is what caused the project to be attacked, not part of the attacks.

Cool. But some other people have morals

Come on, that’s a far stretch. What the person said does not imply that they don’t have morals.

don’t be surprised when people think you’re a cunt because of it.

Maybe no one should be, especially on the internet ;-)