I don’t care what America is doing, ban it because it’s fucking awful for society. Algorithmic short-form content is literally destroying the attention span of an entire generation, regardless of if gathers data on you or not.
ban it because it’s fucking awful for society.
Lots of things are awful for society — fast food, conservatism, detached housing. I agree that TikTok is generally detrimental to society but I think banning it is going too far, unless we can definitely established that it’s being used by the CCP as a psyop.
We’ve mitigated some of that stuff though; with fast food we’ve required calorie counts to be displayed alongside the menu items, which allows you to make an informed decision, even if it’s a bad one.
With TikTok there’s just being forcefed without knowledge of how any of this black box algorithm bullshit works. It’s like going to McDonalds and being able to have unlimited hamburgers of infinite uniqueness and getting unhealthy in the brain.
With TikTok there’s just being forcefed without knowledge of how any of this black box algorithm bullshit works. It’s like going to McDonalds and being able to have unlimited hamburgers of infinite uniqueness and getting unhealthy in the brain.
You can replace “TikTok” here with any closed-source algorithm-driven social media platform, including YouTube. You could probably even make that argument about search engines too. Hell, if you really want to stretch it, even newspapers and radio could get lumped in there, since we don’t see the decisions that lead to what gets published and how it’s presented.
The thing is, none of those algorithms have to be black boxes. They could be published—it’s just that businesses don’t want to, and so far, no government has chosen to force it.
Sure, but now this no longer has much to do with the original topic. What you’re suggesting is that any software algorithm has to have its source code shared, and any media company needs to explain why it publishes what it does, and not other things. That goes far, far beyond TikTok.
That’s because banning Tiktok alone is like trying to hold a gaping wound together with a band-aid. We need to force all social media companies to act like good citizens if they want to remain in the Canadian market. (Yeah, I know, not going to happen.)
I feel like you’re gonna get zero negative responses to this, because, after all
We’re all on Lemmy
Algorithmic short-form content is literally destroying the attention span of an entire generation
I absolutely despise short vertical video as a format, but how is the lack of attention span caused by this type of media? Does the availability of books cause long attention spans? Lack of attention span is the default state of North Americans. Platforms like TikTok, Instagram and Facebook show videos that users want to watch, it’s no different than Audible suggesting books or Netflix suggesting movies. I like the Audiobooks I listen to, they like the 15 second videos that they watch.
It’s also not generational, there are just as many boomers, gen-x, millennials, and gen-z burning hours into these platforms.
Again with this, what was it last time. The mobile phones? Then the video Games? Then the movies and the TV? The rock music? The radio?
I mean, we have actual data this time proving that it’s limiting attention spans and is incredibly addictive. This isn’t the classic right-wingers fearmongering over smoke and air, there’s genuine psychological issues being caused by the app.
I hate Tik Tok as much as the next guy, but I think this could act as a precedent for future censorship.
We’re way past the point of censorship. TikTok is censorship. The private, black-box algorithm content feeds censor whatever isn’t profitable for their major shareholders under the guise that “it’s still there.” Except it almost never gets surfaced.
That fucking self-censoring algo-speak is disgusting. But every single twit who uses “un-alive” instead of just saying “dead” still has the option to leave and use any other platform on the internet. They choose to be fucked by TikTok and Instagram, they aren’t being forced to use these platforms.
I think there’s a pretty massive world of difference between blocking access to a mass misinformation machine operated by a hostile power that has notoriously used apps it controls to locate and kidnap foreign dissidents and a 1984 surveillance state.
I don’t know how we got to this point where millions of Americans think China is their friend but hate their own government for being complicit in a genocide. I guess the Uyghurs just aren’t marketable enough for people to care? The brutal crackdown on Hong Kong has left people’s goldfish memory? Or maybe, just maybe, the mass misinformation machine is doing its job.
We have actual data going back 30+ years that watching TV limits attention span in children and is also addictive.
Nobody gives a shit about that though. What makes tiktok so much more important?
It’s not a moral panic this time though, it’s a legitimate concern.
Nothing has ever produced these billions of sub-30-second, algorithmically curated dopamine blasts.
Video games were a moral panic because they “promoted violence” and TV was supposed to make you stupid, which, it kind of does depending on what you consume. They both required you to sit still and focus on something though.
There are kids who can’t sit through a movie without pulling out their phone because they’re just used to being onto the next thing in 10 seconds.
So you can bitch about it being a moral panic or whatever you want to do to make fun of people who think it’s a concern, but it’s very clear to me from seeing how damaging excessive screen time is on young kids personally that things like YouTube shorts and TikTok are actually super damaging in a number of different ways. They were right about phones, because they’ve facilitated the mass delivery of this content.
nah, it’s a moral panic.
Is reels being castigated? Youtube shorts? They do the exact same dopamine microdosing and attention span buttfucking. The practises aren’t being addressed, or their deleterious effects - in fact it would be incredibly easy to ban what tiktok does rather than the app itself, but they’re not doing that. it’s a moral panic drumbeat that conveniently opens the door to fuck other social media.
I’m sure they thought it wasn’t a moral panic last time too. You sound the same as the adults when i was a young person. Exactly the same. Everyone here does.
You need to ask questions of yourself, I mean, you can ignore the questions of yourself, but that is heading down the same road, but this time, it’s resulting in actual censorship of the things young people use instead of just a panic.
Those disn’t have algorithms and psychology baked in to lure you in
How about we enact meaningful privacy regulations that affect all online services instead?
I hate TikTok as much as the next “old”, but making this about TikTok specifically instead of about the way Platform Capitalism is exploiting all of us lets everyone else off the hook, from giants like Facebook and Google through to ISPs like Bell to automotive OEMs like GM.
Bust all their balls.
Its to fuck with China. US is the worst when it comes to privacy and they’re concerned about China. I would rather sell my data to Chinese for $$ than US taking it for free.
I’m pretty sure TikTok doesn’t pay you either.
Yeah, I support a ban, but it doesn’t go far enough.
The poll does not have a margin of error because online polls aren’t considered truly random samples.
“In terms of those who support the ban and those who have specific concerns regarding TikTok, it’s mostly among older Canadians who don’t use TikTok,” said Christian Bourque, executive vice-president of Leger.
It’s almost as if the headline is clickbait or something. Bullshit article about a bullshit survey that can’t even be called a survey.
I’d understand and be open to a blanket ban or restrictions on all algorithmic short form media, but that’s not what this is. The rationale for the US ban is supposed to be privacy and limiting foreign influence, not concerns over algorithms or they’d have to come up with a reason they’re not banning all the other algorithmic short form media out there. Singling one company out, as the EFT and others have pointed out repeatedly, does nothing about privacy and security issues that are at least as bad with TikTok’s competitors.
This is a combination of censorship (particularly of pro-Palestine content, which many TikTok users are defiantly and persistently supporting even though it’s been severely restricted there), and probably some pandering to certain groups. I’m getting increasingly concerned with this idea I keep seeing people espouse this borderline fascistic idea that rather than encouraging people to develop media literacy, we should just censor all information they see, as if long-term censorship in sanctioned corporate media didn’t set the tone for so many of the problems we’re facing now.
Just bring back myspace and ban all other social media.
FYI, Friendster is getting relaunched soon.
I can make my own decisions on what apps not to use; if I wanted the government to decide for me I’d move somewhere with big government like Saudi Arabia, Russia, or USA.
As much as I hate the idea of the government regulating the internet, at least there will be one fewer type of link I can’t click in my group chats.
EDUCATION IS THE ANSWER, elementary and high schools need to start incorporating classes that teach kids how to recognize when they are being manipulated by corporate entities, government propaganda or individuals. Constant exposure to the idea that the internet’s primary use is to monetize and manipulate users will hopefully lead to a generation of adults who inherently distrust media and will actively look for collaborating sources of information.
As for the ‘erosion of attention spans,’ banning TikTok is like trying to stop alcoholism by banning Anheuser-Busch. Not everyone drinks the same brand of beer, not everyone who consumes alcohol is irresponsible.
No government should be restricting access to any site or service that is not expressly illegal (selling personal information, terrorist group recruitment, human trafficking and exploitation).
It is a slippery slope argument but it is entirely possible that banning TikTok could set a precedent for corporate entities lobbying for bans of sites and technologies that directly threaten their business. ISPs might lobby to ban the use of VPNs because they are used by ‘criminals,’ Microsoft might lobby against desktop Linux distributions because ‘hackers,’ police and governments are already targeting 3rd party messaging platforms and encryption because they offer un-tappable channels for communication.
I actually had a class like that in highschool and 60% of the class barely paid attention so it’s not the total solution but it definitely helped me.
Honestly … government should just nationalize all social media … it holds way too much power over government and society and depending on its design and delivery can become addictive to the point of severely affecting the mental health of people.
It should be a system that is highly regulated like highways, waste water, fresh water, food safety or air traffic. It’s critical to civilization at this point and it is a system that either has the power to help society or destroy it.
This isn’t to say that government would do a great job of handling it either … it will all depend on who wants the power and who wants to deregulate it all at any given moment. But I’d rather have this entire system bound up under the complicated control of government systems than in the hands of a private company or companies that only want to manipulate people to turn a profit.
Think of the examples I just presented … if highways were completely privatized by one or two companies, owning and driving a car would be prohibitively expensive … it all waste water and fresh water were completely privatized in the hands of corporations, how safe do you think your water would be? … if all food safety was handed over to private corporations, what do you think they would feed us? … if private companies were completely put in charge without much regulation on air traffic, how often do you think we’d have air accidents around our airports.
I know government isn’t the answer to everything … but it’s the best we got … if we have a community of organizations and people in place to watch one another, there’s less likely to be a problem or a serious one anyway … just look at how our highways, water and food safety function … sure it isn’t the best, it could be better but it’s a hell of a lot better than letting some greedy corporate head decide on how to let things go or let people get hurt or die just to squeeze a bit more profit out of everything and everyone.
Nationalizing social media wouldn’t work the same though. It’s an inherently international thing. Nobody will use “Canada Twitter” if their friends from other countries aren’t on it. Also, speaking as a federal IT worker, the government is just about the last entity you want working on software projects. Our project management rules mean that we have to run IT projects like it’s the 90’s, even though more effective project management approaches have been adopted by all tech companies in the last couple of decades.
Under funded and unsupported programs or services is not an indication of an idea not working … it’s a symptom that it isn’t appreciated or supported.
If an idea is to be given a chance to succeed, it has to be properly supported and given enough resources to achieve full potential.
Social Media is big business and it has the power to make it break other big businesses and even governments.
It’s like giving the keys to democratic institutions to private companies … and once that happens, what do you think they’ll do with that.
No one wants any third party, or government institution have any control over social media because it will affect who makes money. This is the main reason why no one would want to support the idea.
