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Reject modernity, everyone go back to
forum boardsusenet lolI’m not really one for Tik Tok, but I went on REDNote to see what it was about and it was incredibly wholesome seeing American and Chinese people getting to interact as normal human beings and understand each other without it being filtered through our governments. Even if they don’t shut down Tik Tok, they’re gonna have to shut that shit down. Can’t have future soldiers seeing their “enemies” as humans.
In a way I would feel more comfortable with china having my shit posting data than an American company. At least if china has it, there is slightly less of a chance of them selling the data to a data set deanonymizing company who in turn sells my data linked to me to like an insurance company who jacks my rates because I said their CEO should get Luigi’d. What is china gonna do to me if I never go to China and exist largely outside of their sphere of influence?
It isn’t about you. China doesn’t care about you. If they have a computer tracking cell network info of groups of soldiers, they can glean actionable information about US military posture. They can do large-scale data analysis on the information they have and get a startling amount of information. They can also use it as a vector for injecting their favorite form of aggression against the US, soft power. They can’t defeat the US in a fight, but economic and cultural warfare is a vulnerability in the US where the battleground is far more level. The incoming administration has indicated it plans to further increase the US’s military strength, which is functionally untouchable as it stands and is more than ready for the fight nobody plans to bring against it, while weakening the actual fight we are seeing. The US is objectively safer, however little, against the machinations of the CCP with tiktok gone, but it is a band-aid on a firehose. Also, the CCP is clearly ready for that move given the move to Redbook, likely stoked by CCP operators under the guise of “haha let’s go to another Chinese app, that’ll show 'em!” because Americans are very easy to predict and manipulate…they are born and raised to be manipulated. It’s rough, but quite interesting to see play out.
But that’s my point. china doesn’t care about me. American data gobblers care very much about me because I exist as a consumer in their sphere of influence and am far more likely to be exploited by said data.
Do they actually? I mean why can’t I sell my days. If I quit the big tech companies and paid for the equivalent services, could I sell that data at a auction? Not having a go at you, just wondering how much our individual data is actually worth.
Yeah, China doesn’t have jurisdiction over me. I don’t have to worry about the CCP showing up at my door to harass me for what I post. But it’s a very real threat from the US feds.
I mean you do, that’s what the Chinese police operating in the United States thing is about.
No, it’s sinophobic propaganda.
No that actually happened boss.
To be honest if I had a choice between if America was allowed to spy on me or China was allowed to spy on me, at this point I really don’t care. In the past I would have said America spying on me is better than China spying on me if only because fuck China because they have an iron grip on the video game industry. But since I hate short form videos, fuck all of them.
My assumption is everything everywhere on the internet is already assumed to be fair game for spying, scraping, training, whatever.
At this point the interests seem more about serving than gathering information - hence the political games to control specific platforms now.
The problem with the American government trying to propagandize us against China is that there is currently nothing that they can say about China that is not effectively the same or WORSE in the United States.
But China spies on their citizens…Yeah, that’s the NSA.
They can’t Google Tiananmen Square. They don’t want people knowing their history…We’re trying to ban history books right now because we don’t like that white people look bad during the slave trade.
But China doesn’t have freedom of press…All of our press sources have been bought up by billionaires who also contribute enough campaign contributions to effectively own all of our politicians so that they can control which laws are passed as well as control the narrative surrounding those laws.
China doesn’t have freedom of speech…The United States is officially banning a platform on January 19th that is used by millions of Americans to communicate and share ideas!!!
But China has massive amounts of human rights violations…Forced birth is a war crime that is happening in America RIGHT NOW. Child marriage is legal in the United States right now. Our prison system is legalized slavery. There is a reason that we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. It’s because it’s legalized slavery. The 13th amendment to our constitution says “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” Convenient for a nation that imprisons black people at more than FIVE TIMES the rate of white people.
China is condoning/committing a genocide…That’s fucking laughable. Smile and say that to America’s indigenous peoples. Say that to Palestine. Say that to Congo. Say that to Sudan. Fuck it… Say that to ANY COUNTRY in the global south.
But the working conditions for the Chinese people are terrible…We haven’t raised the minimum wage in 15 FUCKING YEARS! The minimum wage is still $7.25 per hour, meaning you could work a full time job and still only make $15,080 per year. BEFORE TAXES!!! With basically no guaranteed benefits. And on top of that, the government is actively banning an app that is a secondary source of income for people.
There is really not much we can say about China right now, in a negative light, that we cannot find some equivalent here in the United States. And on top of that, at least China has universal healthcare. At least China has public transportation. At least in China, they’re not having their kids shot to death on a daily basis. At least in Chin/ they have managed their homeless population. Do you know how we manage our homeless population? We throw the In prison. We take our veterans and turn them into slaves. In China they give them temporary housing and a job.
I’m not going to sit here and condone the awful shit that China is doing and I do not have any desire to live/suffer there, but if you wanted American citizens to actually believe that we are better than China, then maybe we should actually fucking BE BETTER THAN CHINA.
I’m going to miss TikTok. Some of the smartest, kindest, most generous people I’ve met in my whole life, I met on TikTok.
Honestly, you’re probably better off without tiktok. Short form video is bad for humans, and it’s much worse if it’s not educational
I’m genuinely sorry for the potential friends you’ve lost, but tiktok was not a good thing… An American controlled version wouldn’t be better, I hope you double down on the fediverse
The Greeks complained about the youth using paper instead of writing chalk on stone.
The British complained about the youth reading books.
Things change man
sound advice!
TikTok is banned in the US.
things change, man.
that’s a whole lot of words used to sell tiktok as a fun wholesome platform…
I’m getting strong “both sides are the same” vibes from that wall of text.
tiktok will be the first(of many) apps that will be removed from access within the US. why? to protect the people from outside influence and to protect national defense.
I’m not here to argue about the shit the US has or is doing that’s the same or better or worse than China. I don’t care because, it’s a red herring.
tiktok has a well known and documented history of lying about their privacy protections. on the record they have sold American user data to Chinese backed MICs.
it’s a threat to national security. the end.
to protect the people from outside influence and to protect national defense.
Thats just not true, otherwise we wouldn’t be welcoming a South African who illegally immigrated to the US and has some serious international conflicts-of-interests with US interests control a major social media platform.
Thats just not true, otherwise we wouldn’t be welcoming a South African who illegally immigrated to the US and has some serious international conflicts-of-interests with US interests control a major social media platform.
strawman gonna strawman.
I didn’t vote for him. did you?
you act like it’s the current administration that let’s Elon do whatever he does, but it’s the incoming administration (Trump) that is allowing that.
strawman gonna strawman.
Hardly a strawman! We have a major social media company in the US, that is controlled by a foreigner, for their own, and for foreign interests, and impacting our elections with measureable results.
So, obviously, this move wasn’t done to prevent such a thing from happening, just to prevent certain countries from doing it.
you act like it’s the current administration that let’s Elon do whatever he does, but it’s the incoming administration (Trump) that is allowing that.
Our current admin has done nothing to stop it, and therefore allowing it.
Why are all the US Gov accounts STILL on Twitter?
Hardly a strawman! We have a major social media company in the US, that is controlled by a foreigner, for their own, and for foreign interests, and impacting our elections with measureable results.
are you even taking this seriously? did you not even comprehend what I said or are you just blindly responding hoping for a “gotcha”?
So, obviously, this move wasn’t done to prevent such a thing from happening, just to prevent certain countries from doing it.
not obvious, and just because you say it with more conviction doesn’t make it true.
Our current admin has done nothing to stop it, and therefore allowing it.
by that logic, then you’re just as guilty for allowing them to do nothing. so what gives you the right to complaint about it if you haven’t done anything to stop them?
Why are all the US Gov accounts STILL on Twitter?
there are so many reasons why but you’re just too emotional and inexperienced to see them, but I’ll point out a couple just so you can see how absurd you’re being.
- government moves slow, it takes years to move a major communications component
- red tape slows the process down even more, budgetary concerns, compliance requirements, contractual obligations
- lack of existing choices that have the same scope of reach to Americans
- popularity of the platform for Americans
my advice, sit down and listen before you go off half cocked.
are you even taking this seriously? did you not even comprehend what I said or are you just blindly responding hoping for a “gotcha”?
That aint a “gotya”, that’s proof it has nothing to do with preventing foreign interests from influencing anything. Because we have a foreign interest influencing it already: Musk.
not obvious, and just because you say it with more conviction doesn’t make it true.
So, we have other large social media networks, that are rife with foreign influence, that already influence the US’s internal politics… But yet, banning tiktok was to prevent it from happening?
Its either true, or its not. And in this case, its not true. The sole reason was to keep China specifically, and it only arose because people in the US were learning about shit that US supports. Which the US doesn’t want.
by that logic, then you’re just as guilty for allowing them to do nothing. so what gives you the right to complaint about it if you haven’t done anything to stop them?
Except, they’re not trying to stop foreign influence. They are trying to stop one country, and they only took notice because of news that is damning to the US.
there are so many reasons why but you’re just too emotional and inexperienced to see them, but I’ll point out a couple just so you can see how absurd you’re being.
And… with all your excuses… How come nothing is being done still? Its not new that Elon is a fascist. And it’s not new that Elon is in bed with several foreign interests that are hostile to the US… In fact, its at least 6 years old news at this point.
But tiktok. home of the Pro-Palestinian content is what is being gone after now. Not the Fascists running Twitter, or Facebook… Wonder why that is? Could it be their political donations?
You actually tricked yourself into believing this isn’t all about shutting down competition to American companies or stopping people’s (especially young people’s) power to disseminate even remotely left leaning views that could gain traction and threaten the oligarchs.
I mean even the politicians who back this bill state as much, so I’m not sure why you think this is about national defense. American citizens are just under as much threat as before, but now they have one less way to express themselves. Ain’t that great. /s
You actually tricked yourself into believing this isn’t all about shutting down competition to American companies or stopping people’s (especially young people’s) power to disseminate even remotely left leaning views that could gain traction and threaten the oligarchs.
I didn’t though. and choosing an app to post memes is not a “power to disseminate”. that’s just childish to believe.
I mean even the politicians who back this bill state as much, so I’m not sure why you think this is about national defense. American citizens are just under as much threat as before, but now they have one less way to express themselves. Ain’t that great. /s
lies unless you can prove they stated that in an official capacity, disingenuous at best. Americans have the same amount of ways to express themselves today as they will tomorrow.
you honestly believe that an app will aid you in expressing yourself more? now who’s tricking themselves? be it an app that’s federated, Chinese, corporate, etc; you will never express yourself more than when you do it yourself. all these “apps” are distractions that bring much hand wringing and gnashing of teeth that force you into a little box so you can pretend you made a difference. social media apps are the “thoughts and prayers” of the 21st century.
so please forgive me for not takings your musings on one media platform over another seriously.
It can be a corporate move to out competition AND also improve security. These are not mutually exclusive.
More likely people will just install/update tiktok outside of Google play and apple store.
Tiktok got banned in India some years ago and it doesn’t work if you sideload, or even VPN somehow. But pretty much the next day instagram launched their reels things and people jumped ship without talking about tiktok anymore…
Rumor has it that tiktok will be unplayable with accounts linked to an American SIM card
Tiktok is going to be paradise without all the US problems in everybody else’s internet. It’s going to be the best social network ever
That is actually a really funny point I hadn’t thought of.
That… would be interesting. I wonder how they would implement that, and what else they decide is worth that restriction. Curious to see it play out
Edit: helpful info from Toms Hardware
https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/online-security/what-will-happen-if-tiktok-is-banned
You can’t open douyin (the Chinese Tiktok) with a non-Chinese SIM present. So implementing it on the software side would be trivial, if google was to enforce this change software-sided.
The block is trivial to bypass though, all you need to do is use wifi while disabling the SIM slot in your phone settings. My wife is Chinese, and I had to figure that out for her.
Any China market tablet can install douyin even without a SIM, most even come with it installed by default.
The app will stop working in the US. Doesn’t matter where you get it from.
Isn’t that what a VPN is for?
If someone is savvy enough to install from outside of the normal install mode especially on iOS, wouldn’t that imply that they are at least aware of a VPN?
There are lots of good free vpns out now, so it’s not unlikely. People that spend hours on it can follow a guide for 10 minutes. It will lower the amount of people on it for sure but anybody who wants to can bypass it easily. It will probably mean more for creators and stuff, and their us bank accounts maybe won’t be able to accept money from tk if they’re sanctioned.
I can’t imagine anyone using a VPN just for TikTok. Not to mention free vpns are garbage and don’t work well.
fucking idiots
Why? Cuz Chinese bad? Stolen data bad? I think you don’t understand that there is no safe data. It doesn’t matter who is taking it but your data is owned by someone. If not the Chinese it’s the US government. If not them then you’re phone provider. If you purchase ANYTHING, that store is collecting your data.
Not Chinese bad, Chinese government bad. because the Chinese government has so much control, Chinese companies can’t be trusted. yes, stolen data is bad. I know that data is being stolen anyway, but tiktok has historically been very bad about it. however, i was reffering to them moving from one shitty Chinese platform to another even more shitty and even more Chinese (as in controlled more by the Chinese government) one, when there are platforms that are from places that do not have an authoritarian government able to control any company if they so choose. of course something like instagram (reels) or youtube shorts isn’t much better in terms of data theft, but who has the data does matter no matter how hard you’re coping.
You are just parroting shit you read on the internet and I feel bad for you. You literally have no idea how fucked we all are in terms of our data being stolen. I guess you want to be the one who determine who fucks you. Well TikTok users are doing the same
You are essentially virtue signaling that you are so much more security minded than everyone because you “safeguard your data”. I’m sorry to burst your bubble but our oligarch owns our data and is selling it to the highest bidder. The fact that you own a phone/computer means your data has already been bought and sold.
I don’t get it, are they going to steal my bank login? Like what’s so bad about knowing I liked a fried meme?
It’s more than just what you do in the app though. Check out some of the data any random website can find out about you here: privacy.net/analyzer/
Expand that into an app, given lots of permissions, that is tied to your phone number and email account. Given enough time and logging, it knows where you live and work, when you commute and sleep, every WiFi or mobile network you connect to and where they are located. This metadata is linked to your account and in-app activity. They have this data for you, your friends, colleagues, that weird guy you see on the bus every day… Right now, the app just uses all this to influence “your algorithm” (side note: this is also why people think some apps are actively ‘listening’ to conversations). But imagine a case where the govt owner of the app wants to start pushing a specific narrative, gradually swaying opinions or sowing the seeds of discourse, reinforcing it with the artificial echo chamber that is your new algorithm. /TedTalkThey are stealing data that can be (and is, often) used to track you across the entire internet. many social media platforms (again, especially tiktok) use this data to straight up manipulate people into spending more time on their platform and having views that align with the interests of the company. this is especially bad if the interests of the company are really the interests of an authoritarian government that is blatantly hostile to other countries unprovoked.
Your statement applies whether we’re talking about American or Chinese companies. One of these countries has affordable groceries, the other has school shootings.
But yeah yeah “what about Tianeman Square, and Taiwan?” OK sure, fine. What about police brutality and the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST?
People keep making this argument comparing TikTok to American social media companies when talking about data.
What is hard to understand? Americans are fine with other Americans or American companies having their data. Americans are not fine with China having their data.
It is pretty simple.
I’d rather the Chinese government have my data than the US government. The US government has a lot more power over me.
This sentiment will be the downfall of America. Maybe that’s what you want. Not me.
It isn’t just about data, but influence.
Okay so China bad, America good?
That’s one way to look at it, not my intent but if that’s how you took it, enjoy.
More like, foreign control of my mental state is bad.
What if that’s what they were talking about? That’s it’s idiotic to ban it given everything you just said.
Why try to hype this as a trend?
because “red note” paid them to?
This is the third story I’ve seen today that was basically “Tiktok users flee service to other chinese service app you’ve never heard of”
So basically the usa banned tiktok, and now there’s 3 other tiktoks, all connecting the same amount of data for china, just through 3 different services instead of 1.
XiaoHongShu is much older than tiktok, it started shortly after facebook, though resembles more a mix of Twitter and Instagram.
XiaoHongShu was founded in 2013, Facebook was founded in 2004…
Your sense of time is a bit warped…
Sounds about right, From my understanding, they singled out TikTok instead of addressing the actual problem they claim to care about.
[Edit, another comment says its any app with 1million users. So now there’s just going to be a hundred TikTok clones all under the same umbrella just different names.]
If they addressed the general problem it would also affect US social media platforms and they want to continue doing that when American companies do it.
Due to the network effect, having a hundred apps instead of one is a big negative.
To be fair, the law is broad enough that it could target these other services as well pretty easily.
The law is broad enough they could target Discord.
your edit sounds like the fediverse model
I suppose. I was thinking more of 1 Chinese company just spinning up a hundred copy/paste apps.
Honestly, I don’t even believe these articles. At some point it just starts to sound like they are making things up.
I mean, this is real easy to fact check. Open whichever playstore you prefer and sort by most downloaded. Red note and 8 will be up there.
Meet the new app, same as the old app.
The number of people in the comments celebrating censorship by our own government while also claiming China is authoritarian is insane.
Both can be true. I’m against banning TikTok, but I also think TikTok is absolutely terrible and nobody should use it. China is authoritarian, and this ban by the US is wrong. I say this as an American.
Why is it terrible? Have you ever even been on it? Most people I’ve encountered that say it’s terrible or it’s brain rot or something along those lines have never even been on it, they’re simply parroting what they’ve heard other people say
I’ve seen people scrolling on it their whole time on public transportations on materials worse than the worst of TV commercials, like they were in a trance. I know people who using it for at lease an hour every day before bed, and admitting they don’t know what they get from it, just boredom. From what I know, it’s like brainwashing for people who don’t know what to do with their lives.
So you have your nose so far up in their business you know exactly what app they’re watching and what type of materials they’re consuming? I’m going to wager none of the things that you just claimed you’ve ever witnessed
I know that advertisers love that TikTok knows when a user desires your product. I wonder why they can target you so well? All state sponsored social media, X and Meta and company as well as TikTok, should be avoided if you don’t want corporations and capitalists and authoritarians having that much information about you. If you hate corporations trying to sell you things, maybe don’t use a dopamine and social habit tracking app that’s designed to sell ads to play on your fears
I have never received targeted advertising on tiktok. I can’t remember the last time I had seen an ad on there.
oh bless your heart 😌
Apologies for the southern passive aggressiveness, but I believe you may not notice how much content is an ad
Why, don’t you know there’s a thing called observation?
There’s also this thing called making the shit up
Looks like where your heart truly belong is Mao’s China or Stalin’s Russia. You’ve commented quite a lot of things.
They could listen to a Joe Rogan podcast the exact same way. They’re on public transport, what the fuck else are they going to do but look at their phone or listen to something with headphones?
I have to admit, you are right. If there is nothing been stuffed into their minds, most people really don’t know what to do with themselves, just like Montag’s wife from Fahrenheit 451. But there are differences between actively seek something you interested in than going blank and let the algorithms do the job for you. I thought people in Fediserse mostly against the idea of the latter. Otherwise, you will go to Tiktok or something.
Once you’ve spent some time the algorithm learns what you like. For example my feed is a lot of indie music, civil rights, and table top role-playing stuff. Once it gets enough information on the stuff you like you don’t really need to do more than swipe past the ads.
How do you know heroin is bad for you? Have you tried it? You can’t say it’s bad unless you’ve tried it.
Where do I begin:
- China has more-or-less direct control over the app, and China is an enemy of the US
- extensive tracking
- it’s designed specifically to be addictive instead of beneficial
Other SM apps do 2 and 3, but that doesn’t mean TikTok is okay, it means those other apps are also terrible.
Where’s the evidence then?
People aren’t as principled as they like to think they are.
Aww man, the government here won’t let me use the reeducation of undesirables as a smokescreen to produce fast fashion in my chattel-slavery styled sweat-shops :(
Wah wahh
Are they banning temu?
censorship??? there are a ton of other apps that do the same. China censors people and created a credit # for them to punish them if they dont act they way the gov wants you to act. What are u on about?
An app has been shut down on the unsubstantiated claims that it was a tool of foreign influence but on the apparent reasoning that it was facilitating conversations that western social media is hostile to such as the Israeli extermination of Palestinians.
Palestine and Gaza were specifically cited by congresspeople as an inspiration and justification for the ban. It is plainly censorship. That’s not really debatable.
Whether or not you believe that the censorship was reasonable or if there is sufficient evidence of subversive foreign influence using the platform is possibly debatable, but the fact that it is censorship is not.
Omg china has a credit # for their people? Thats evil! Good thing we dont have a Credit Score in the freedom country. And yeah its not censorship if you can get around it! Especially if its shutting people’s communication down for our freedom and safety 😎🦅🇺🇸
Ours is an actual credit system based on money not theirs… they want to control and brainwash you and I gotta say they are doing an amazing job! In a few days this app will be gone hopefully! Also if it was about money they would have sold it they didn’t cause they know its a tool they need to keep brainwashing people.
You clearly dont even know what their system is. Their only “credit system” is the sesame seed thing that two of the big companies use its not a government thing punishing you for wrongthink. Also to think we’re not brainwashed in the US is ridiculous.
America and China are the two most propagandized countries but at least they have the excuse of not being the most powerful country for the last century while still actively committing multiple genocides and denying their citizens healthcare or housing.
You live in china? If not you should move there!
Says the person that is clueless on the Chinese credit system
Tell me how great tik tok is and how great the chinese credit system is…. Pls
It’s no one’s job but your own to filter through propaganda. And everything you’ve claimed is propaganda.
Bye tik tok
It’s not going anywhere
You must have a lot invested in that particular shitposting app.
You don’t have to attach yourself to everything you enjoy. It’s okay to leave yourself some wiggle rook to learn and grow.
Tiktok = brain rot
I don’t want to rain on everyone’s parade but I think the law bans all apps with over 1 million users that are based in China, Russia, Iran, or North Korea (“foreign adversary controlled applications”) where you can make a profile and share content. WeChat would definitely count. So, Red Note is probably/possibly going away soon too. I guess VKontakte is Russian and still in the app stores.
The media is focused on creators and TikTok, obviously. But a WeChat ban would probably suck for people with grandparents in China since that’s the “everything app” there. (I don’t know what China bans but even if there’s other messaging apps allowed in China, teaching your elderly Chinese grandma to use a different app on a ~12h time zone difference is probably not a fun activity.)
Russia is no longer an adversary with the incoming administration, Putin owns Trump and their interests are now are own.
Their interests are his interests, not ours.
No sarcasm, I’m happy that you agree. But we have no power to stop whatever the fuck he’s going to do, so we’re just talking semantics.
It’s any app they can point to as being controlled. It does not matter where it is based. As an example they could allege that one of the owners of Discord has Russian contacts and is therefore controlled by a foreign adversary. (He was born in Kharkiv, Ukraine; where contact between Russians and Ukrainians wasn’t uncommon before the current war.)
Congress can request a briefing but if they want to prevent a fire sale they have to pass an entirely new bill amending the law.
And this article is so transparently an ad for Red Note it’s ridiculous.
From the frying pan into the fire. Well done.
They don’t view it as a fire or frying pan, obviously
Wow. They really went with Xiao hong shu?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotations_from_Chairman_Mao_Tse-tung
I knew Xiao Hong shu translated to little red book, but I didn’t put two and two together until now. That’s freaking hilarious
I thought it was hilarious for the same reason, but I don’t think anyone in Chinese refers to that book as 小红书. It’s the 红宝书. I’ve never been to China and perhaps google/Baidu/Pleco isn’t going to perhaps pick up that kind of usage, but I think it is more of a cross cultural accident.
You are correct - I had forgotten (been quite a while). I still think it’s funny but thanks for pointing this out.
But 宝 (Bǎo) means “precious” or “treasured” and 红宝书 probably only gets translated as little red book because it sounds better in English.
Those users:
I will always upvote Kung Pow!
Good ole wimp lo.
We trained him wrong. As a joke.
“Hold on. Stand still as I do a back flip over your shoulders so I can kick you in the face bro.”
“Ok bro”I do recommend the movie, if you haven’t seen it!
Oh, yep, I love Kung Pow! It was one of the more memorable ones growing up. It’s tupid fun watching it every time.
