It’s getting more and more unhinged on LinkedIn.
I’ll take salty C++ masochist for 5
If moving to another language erases 15 years of experience, you probably don’t have a good grasp on the fundamentals…
15 years is just about enough to understand how initializing a variable works in C++: https://randomcat.org/cpp-initialization/initialization.png
ey yo, wtf? is that a meme image?
no it’s real with references to the C++ standard (I think). they also have a big m4 macro(?) for generating the flowchart
C++ is a meme.
Perhaps the LinkedIn user should have considered learning “programming” instead of just C++
shh, Rust Is the New World Order
What the hell is going on with the kerning in that screenshot? My eyes, they bleed.
Wh atd oyou mean?
Do we have a c/keming?
If not, please make one, I wanna subscribe
Yeah, wth is this? It’s so bad at points that it sometimes looks like two words.
Linux is going on.
This really implies a level of competence and understanding among the highest levels of management that I think we all know just isn’t there.
@onlinepersona the master plan to remove old senior devs is … to train new senior devs.
That’s a special kind of evil. A purer kind.
Anti-Rust crusaders: “C is easy actually and Rust is pointlessly annoying and hard to learn”
Also anti-Rust crusaders:
ancient amateur C coder here (not even c++). picked up python about 5 years ago (cuz why not?). been playing around with rust for a bit (like it so far). only issue is recoded tools getting released under mit license instead of gpl (cuz, get off my lawn!).
get with the times old man. nobody uses rust anymore, its already 10 years old and it takes soooooooooooo long to build. ur not gonna get anywhere unless u can l33tcode in rustscript these days. dinosaur
/s
great grandkids told be brainfuck is the future. are they right?!
Yep, agreed that the license change is an actual issue
not even c++
You dodged a bullet. I much prefer writing in C to C++.
yeah. I took one look at c++ and gagged at what had been done to my beautifully tight, simple language. it just felt like such a bolt-on.
python fit neatly into a void. then came rust. that got me interested again.
nah, keep on, gpl is superior.
Disclaimer: the damn screenshot just won’t load for me, so this is just a personal rant
Rust crusaders: it forces you to write good and safe code! This is superior to other languages!
Me: fucking fuck off, will ya. I need to become competent enough to write good and safe code (meaning think about problems before they happen), not some fucking kindergarten. Rust may be a good language, but the above argument sucks so very much
The screenshot is a conspiracy-laden ramble about how Rust is being introduced to lower the pay of systems-level SWEs by allowing companies to hire younger people, for the record.
Thank you, kind soul.
He. As if language is something that a dev doing systems-level architecture can’t pick up as the need arises. I did have a good laugh
@onlinepersona ah, the time-honored tradition of The Big Rewrite 'cause it’s cheap. Where do people get these horseshit ideas?
Probably from the same spot where they get the idea that languages literally designed within the first few decades of our profession are the pinnacle of technical excellence and can never be surpassed.
Rust is a conspiracy to bring down wages! Rust is a conspiracy to replace GPL with MIT to gain control of Linux! Rust is a conspiracy to impregnate your dog!
Hey, you sicko! Stay the hell away from my Linux!
Where’s that animooted sickos gif when I need it?
This whole circumstance just reminds me of COBOL. Nowadays you have scant few programmers for it, but the ones who do demand a big salary because it’s such old specialized technology and often they have decades of experience in it. There’s simply less COBOL programmers than there were in the languages heyday, and the ones trying to enter that market nowadays have a huge learning curve ahead of them.
The only reason most of these places that do that though, is because they wrote in COBOL to begin with decades ago, and didn’t want to switch away to something more modern as other languages gained functionality and popularity.
I doubt C is ever going to go the way that COBOL has, it’s too ubiquitous, but it does make one consider the language you write in and how compatible it may be not just with what exists today but what’s going to exist years from the creation of that code.
The only reason most of these places that do that though, is because they wrote in COBOL to begin with decades ago, and didn’t want to switch away to something more modern as other languages gained functionality and popularity.
And it would’ve been much cheaper to rewrite once some years ago than to keep paying people to maintain it.
And in many cases, rewriting something improves the code substantially by finding bugs and fixing architectural issues. Old code doesn’t mean it’s correct, it’s just old, and just today we had a high severity bug from code that was never properly tested and sat unchanged since near the start of the project.
I think that many a time people begin a project coding in a far-far-far too-low level programming-language: they’re solving the wrong problem!
Build your prototype in a high level language, get the model/architecture correct … and THEN begin replacing the slow bits with faster languages…
To me that seems right.
Haskell to begin-with, & when it solves ALL of the problem, correctly … THEN you begin converting stuff to Crab-lang/Rust…
When you’re still bashing 'round, trying to discover the form of the underlying problems in your problem … that’s the wrong time to be doing low-level stuff, to my eyes…
_ /\ _
I get the sentiment, but I think Rust does a pretty decent job even in the prototyping phase. I’ll run snippets in Python or Lua, but that’s mostly for data mangling, like generating code from a data format or preparing test data.
So far it works pretty well.
The US government recommending memory safe languages has really given people worms in their heads
So RFK is now a software developer?
RFK is a C-nile
This is triggering me really good. Especially the part about seniors competing with juniors. Has this person ever met … people?
I seriously doubt changing language would impact a senior that much…
Rust is one of the harder languages for beginners to learn because of its borrow checker and strict ownership model, but it shouldn’t take more than a month or two for a competent senior to pick up.
It’s going to be deeply unpleasant and seem like a problem if:
- You’re writing dangerously bad C or C++ code already.
- You’ve only ever used Python or JavaScript.
- You try to shoehorn OOP and inheritance into it (Rust idioms are composition and functional programming).
- You refuse to use/learn pattern matching.
- You’re a pedant about “pretty” syntax.
If someone is at a senior level and any of those apply, they probably shouldn’t be at a senior level, though.
rust is leans more towards data oriented design than functional programming imo
You’re a pedant about “pretty” syntax.
Oh I’m definitely whinging about it but it doesn’t make me stop using Rust. People coming from C or especially C++ don’t really have a leg to stand on, though, neither do people coming from ML. It’s Haskell people who get hit hardest.
Can confirm, I’m a senior and I didn’t have much trouble with Rust. After a couple weeks, I was writing useful code. After a month, I generally stopped cussing at the compiler.
I’m still finding odd surprises here and there, but it’s honestly no big deal. I’m about as productive in Rust as I am in Python, which I use at my day job, though I use them for very different domains.
You’re writing dangerously bad C or C++ code already.
Shots fired. Must be footgun that went off somewhere.
I’m still learning Rust coming from Python and R and honestly point 2 and 3 are not even that bad. Sure I have been bashing my head against some corners, and the lack of OOP was somewhat unexpected, but imho the language really helps you think about what you are doing.
the lack of OOP
Rust absolutely has OOP, that’s what Traits are for. It just doesn’t have classical inheritance, so you structure your patterns a bit differently.
That said, I lean more into functional-inspired style anyway, which tends to work pretty well w/ Rust.
traits aren’t oop. they’re closer to haskell’s typeclasses than anything else
At its core, OOP is just commingling data and operations, whereas FP is separating data from operations on data. I’m not an expert at Haskell (I cut my FP teeth on Lisp), but that’s essentially what typeclasses look like to me.
The Rust book has a section on OOP, and the main thing to remember is that Rust solves OOP through composition instead of inheritance. Rust doesn’t have inheritance in any meaningful way, but it can solve problems in a similar way as classical OOP.
i would strongly disagree with that characterization of both fp and oo. classifying rust as oo weakens it imo, and the fact that you can easily solve all the problems oo solves in rust, as your linked document shows, is not proof rust is oo, but rather that oo is unnecessary to solve those problems
object orientation is classes done wrong. typeclasses (and traits) are classes done right
Then how would you define OOP and FP?
Wikipedia claims it supports OOP:
Rust does not enforce a programming paradigm, but was influenced by ideas from functional programming, including immutability, higher-order functions, algebraic data types, and pattern matching. It also supports object-oriented programming via structs, enums, traits, and methods.
I wouldn’t say Rust is an OOP language though, because that absolutely gives the wrong impression since that evokes ideas of classical inheritance as in C++ or Java. But I do very much believe it supports object oriented programming as a paradigm, since you can model things with objects at the core.
That said, I think Rust is best used with less emphasis on OOP, since it’s pretty easy to get into trouble modeling things that way when it comes to lifetimes. I use OOP-style in Rust when it makes sense, and the rest is as close to functional as I can get it.
object orientation is classes done wrong
I think classical inheritance is object oriented programming done wrong. Go had the start of a good idea with composition and interfaces, and I think Rust’s traits + generics improved on it.
Junior here. Rust was easy as fuck to learn, honestly. I just want a way out of junior hell with 4 YoE.
Wait, so saving a ton of money by using a language that reduces production bugs is now a bad thing?
I’m a senior sw engineer, and I don’t get paid because I know the vagueries of whatever language we’re using, I get paid because I can lead a team that solves problems. I don’t really care what the language is, but I do care that it’s relatively easy to on-board someone in case we have turnover or something.
I don’t know about you, but I’d rather be highly paid because I’m able to be really productive instead of highly paid because I’m literally the only shot the company has of fixing the bug.
This is such an incredible self-own.
Either:
-
C++ is such a horrific language and Rust is so vastly superior that a person with 6 months of experience in Rust can be as productive and valuable as someone with 30 years of experience in C++.
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The person writing the post, and according to them C++ programmers in general, bring virtually nothing to the table other than knowing the syntax and semantics of C++, even after 30 years of programming.
Por que no los dos?
Sorry but you’re wrong. It’s both.
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Bruh. Just put Rust on your resume. It’s not like they’ll actually check and you can still Google everything.
