That makes it sadder. Every one of those is an individual whose entire birth, life and death was for a sandwich, and people could just choose a different sandwich.

So you realise that you’re parroting the same thing all over the place and you know it’s probably not accurate? Here’s a challenge for you - approach this topic like something you’ve not researched before without your existing opinions and try and reach an answer as to whether electric cars are better or worse for the environment by being as scientific and objective as possible.

Because I keep coming across comments similar to yours, I have taken that same challenge myself to make sure I’m on the right track and there was a lack of compelling sources suggesting that electric cars are worse for the environment.

I invite everyone with the alternative view to the same challenge.

Well fantastic - best to go for the one with the least impact to the environment and suffering then!

To make one redundant point, a nice thing about the less natural sourcing of things is that exact dosages can be measured during synethesis - so when tree bark is swapped out for aspirin, opium for morphine etc. you can get reliable, pure dosages for medicine. I don’t think that’s really very important for vitamins of course.

Yes, I’m pretty sure a lion would die if he tried eating only plants, while I’d imagine a cow would die on a meat diet. I’m less well versed on non-human animal diets though, as I’ve never needed to give it a lot of thought.

I do know that humans can be very strong, fit and healthy on a plant-based diet, as confirmed by the world’s medical institutions, and demonstrated by vegan athletes of all types.

Why is it worse to get things from less natural sources? Ignoring that everybody get some of their vitamins from less natural sources, e.g. animals injected with B12, cereals fortified with iron, water and toothpaste with fluoride, synthesised morphines instead of smoking opium - would you say these things are bad too because they are less natural? And if so, why?

Also, do you take all of your moral code from the worst things animals do? I hold myself to a higher standard and don’t eat my kids, rape, or fling shit at each others.

Herbivores must, carnivores must not, omnivores with very high level thinking and moral agency is fortunate enough to choose.

What do you think they have to feed to the animals? If you believe plants to be important enough, you should go vegan to reduce their suffering. Also, do you get really annoyed at people walking on grass? How about if you see someone kick a dog? I swear, when it comes to the veganism devate, normally sensible people completely lose all sense of logic.

Worth noting that many non-vegans are vitamin deficient and some medical authorities, including the UK’s, even recommend that everyone take vitamin D supplements. Also, please reconsider using your Internet connection, that isn’t very natural either.

Are you sure?