• barsoap@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Oh yes Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine not being in NATO totally prevented war. How could I forget.

    It doesn’t matter what the Balkans and Poland think

    You’re a hexbear, so presumably self-identify as being on the left. Which then leads me to the question of WTF are you pushing talking points of geopolitical realists, “there are players and there are chess pieces”.

    It very much matters what those states think because, as sovereign states, they enjoy freedom of alliance. To deny that means that you think it is all nice and proper for Russia to still treat them as colonies.

    • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      It very much matters what those states think because, as sovereign states, they enjoy freedom of alliance

      I don’t want to be allied with them because they bring nothing to an alliance except liability.

      Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine not being in NATO prevented war between Russia and America, Britain, and France. And that is the big war that can’t be allowed to happen

      this isn’t a new phenomenon we are talking about the great game of empire and there are very good reasons why it was always the conventional wisdom to not mess with Russia over eastern Europe. If they are sovereign states then let them be sovereign states and deal with problems on their own

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        the great game of empire and there are very good reasons why it was always the conventional wisdom

        That wisdom is called appeasement and has failed again and again. Empires will empire, if you give them a finger they’ll wait for a bit and then take an arm.

        You seem to be completely realism-pilled. I have my issues with Kraut but watch this, it’s good stuff.

        If they are sovereign states then let them be sovereign states and deal with problems on their own

        If they are unemployed and homeless then let them be independent and deal with problems on their own. The fuck. And you call yourself a leftist.

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          That wisdom is called appeasement and has failed again and again. Empires will empire, if you give them a finger they’ll wait for a bit and then take an arm.

          I agree, the US should be forcibly disbanded by an international peacekeeping force after the last two centuries of imperialism and genocide. No point in waiting for us to get worse, we need to be stopped now.

          • You joke (I think) but you actually illustrate why so many people are supporting Ukraine. The reaction of a lot of people to “the US should be forcibly disbanded by an international peacekeeping force” would be one of indignation and fury at the suggestion that foreign powers should violate one’s home and put their loved ones in danger in order to satisfy global political objectives.

            • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Uhh given the last eight years of ethnic cleansing in the Donbas region by our coup regime in Ukraine, it’s really a better example of why so mamy countries around the world are supporting the russian federation here.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I appreciate the sentiment but I don’t want to see what certain states will be up to if they don’t have the federal level to keep them in check.

        • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          That wisdom is called appeasement and has failed again and again. Empires will empire, if you give them a finger they’ll wait for a bit and then take an arm.

          No it’s called a sphere of influence and it’s just playing by the old cold war rules.

          If they are unemployed and homeless then let them be independent and deal with problems on their own. The fuck.

          countries are not people.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            No it’s called a sphere of influence

            You say that as if geopolitical realism was the truth to end all inquiry, the insight to end all history.

                  • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    Why should we still play the old war game? How do realists decide which country is a poker chip and which is a player (one area where US and European realists differ btw: In the European view, Russia is not a player)? What do you do if a country doesn’t want to be a poker chip? Can you really ignore internal forces, can it all be boiled down to power politics? Why stick to a theory that was completely blind-sided by the end of the cold war and after that argued to subsidise the east so that it can continue?

                    That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Because there’s people living in those countries.

        Go on, write a letter to an imaginary 6yold niece of yours in Mariopol explaining why it’s better that she lives in a mafia-run police state, than for Ukraine to decide its own fate.

        Also, states generally refuse to be poker chips, and they have all right to do so. Thus, by insisting that they be, you invariably create conflict.