What is a congestion charge in this case? It sounds more like a traffic/road maintenance thing than related to emissions?
Most places I’ve lived (US and Canada) only require emissions testing if the vehicle is old enough not to have modern emissions control sensors. The test costs maybe $20 every couple years, which is nothing compared to all the other costs of owning a vehicle. Presumably your 2010 Polo doesn’t have a check-engine light if the catalytic converter has a hole in it, but your 2021 4x4 most certainly does.
Edit: (See comments below about emissions systems).
Specifically Washington State only required emissions testing (tailpipe test on a Dyno) on model years 2008 and older, after which the only requirement is California’s “CARB certified” with no testing other than at the factory. And as of 2020 they don’t even do emissions testing anymore.
It is a charge to drive an older (not better working or less polluting necessarily) model mode of transport in a particular area. It is not a test or anything. Most of these are enforced with licence plate readers and the info on the registry.
Interesting, thanks for the explaination. That’s definitely not something I’ve seen around here. If anything there’s more fees for having a new vehicle because they’re all heavy SUVs / Trucks / EVs, and you end up paying a heavy vehicle tax that older (and generally lighter) cars don’t hit.
At least a heavy vehicle tax has some base in physics (more mass needs more energy to move and all that). The idea that new vehicles are better for emissions just due to when they are made is silly.
The Polo is not mine, I have the 4x4. S friend has the Polo.
Where I live it is law to have a fully functional catalytic converter and it’s tested every year and replaced if needed.
Also it’s a poor justification anyway, we don’t legislate to fine people for something their car might be doing. But then that’s not really what the congestion charge is aimed at because it’s a really obvious poor tax that people tolerate because it will ultimately ease congestion, albeit unfairly.
I’m not talking about check engine lights in general, but specifically all the emissions control sensors that are mandated by the government, and will throw an engine code for emissions (which can then fail you on an inspection if your state has them). Catalytic converts weren’t even a thing in 1968, so “onboard computer diagnostics” isn’t talking about the same thing.
A car from 2000 vs 2020 have very different emissions requirements from the factory, since the laws have changed over the years. It makes sense that they’d be treated differently for their polluting potential.
Still though, my 2000 pathfinder had that. It would literally throw the obd2 code for catalyst bank efficiency which basically meant either there was a hole in the exhaust keeping the gasses from getting to the catalytic converter or the converter was passing gasses without catalyzing them.
When the catalytic converter gets clogged you get all the different “hey, you’re running lean!” type codes.
My truck used the same process to figure it out and turn on the check engine light when it saw that you weren’t getting good enough combustion (efficiency is in almost all circumstances the maximum amount of power you can get!)
I’d be interested to know what requirements you’re talking about, since they vary by place. I know at one point California had mandated dyno testing which people hated but it’s the real best way to both evaluate emissions and see if the car is running worth a crap.
The more I read into emissions requirements, the less I’m convinced there’s a meaningful difference between a 2010 and 2020 engine’s emissions system.
I retract my original statement that a 2010 Polo wouldn’t have the same emissions equipment as a newer car. I suspect a newer engine would still have tighter requirements for sensor values though based on the constantly evolving emissions laws.
California has made their emissions requirements stricter and stricter every few years, but it seems like most of the big changes were pre-2000 that I could find (or future like the upcoming phasing out of ICEs).
Just as a summary of the emissions systems I was considering along with catalytic converters, which it turns out have all been around a long time:
What you’re saying is my understanding too. All those things are 80s tech that back then operated in separate isolated closed loop servo feedback when working right and pissed everyone off when something went wrong because they couldn’t just go out and fuck around with the carburetor until it worked right.
Part of what made obd2 so great for so long was that it gave you the actual measurement to pair with a symptom that would tell you what to test to figure out what part was messed up.
What is a congestion charge in this case? It sounds more like a traffic/road maintenance thing than related to emissions?
Most places I’ve lived (US and Canada) only require emissions testing if the vehicle is old enough not to have modern emissions control sensors. The test costs maybe $20 every couple years, which is nothing compared to all the other costs of owning a vehicle.
Presumably your 2010 Polo doesn’t have a check-engine light if the catalytic converter has a hole in it, but your 2021 4x4 most certainly does.Edit: (See comments below about emissions systems).
Specifically Washington State only required emissions testing (tailpipe test on a Dyno) on model years 2008 and older, after which the only requirement is California’s “CARB certified” with no testing other than at the factory. And as of 2020 they don’t even do emissions testing anymore.
It is a charge to drive an older (not better working or less polluting necessarily) model mode of transport in a particular area. It is not a test or anything. Most of these are enforced with licence plate readers and the info on the registry.
Interesting, thanks for the explaination. That’s definitely not something I’ve seen around here. If anything there’s more fees for having a new vehicle because they’re all heavy SUVs / Trucks / EVs, and you end up paying a heavy vehicle tax that older (and generally lighter) cars don’t hit.
At least a heavy vehicle tax has some base in physics (more mass needs more energy to move and all that). The idea that new vehicles are better for emissions just due to when they are made is silly.
The Polo is not mine, I have the 4x4. S friend has the Polo.
Where I live it is law to have a fully functional catalytic converter and it’s tested every year and replaced if needed.
Also it’s a poor justification anyway, we don’t legislate to fine people for something their car might be doing. But then that’s not really what the congestion charge is aimed at because it’s a really obvious poor tax that people tolerate because it will ultimately ease congestion, albeit unfairly.
My 2003 Camry has a check engine light for that.
Also my 1990 truck.
And Volkswagen had onboard computer diagnostics in 1968.
I’m not talking about check engine lights in general, but specifically all the emissions control sensors that are mandated by the government, and will throw an engine code for emissions (which can then fail you on an inspection if your state has them). Catalytic converts weren’t even a thing in 1968, so “onboard computer diagnostics” isn’t talking about the same thing.
A car from 2000 vs 2020 have very different emissions requirements from the factory, since the laws have changed over the years. It makes sense that they’d be treated differently for their polluting potential.
Still though, my 2000 pathfinder had that. It would literally throw the obd2 code for catalyst bank efficiency which basically meant either there was a hole in the exhaust keeping the gasses from getting to the catalytic converter or the converter was passing gasses without catalyzing them.
When the catalytic converter gets clogged you get all the different “hey, you’re running lean!” type codes.
My truck used the same process to figure it out and turn on the check engine light when it saw that you weren’t getting good enough combustion (efficiency is in almost all circumstances the maximum amount of power you can get!)
I’d be interested to know what requirements you’re talking about, since they vary by place. I know at one point California had mandated dyno testing which people hated but it’s the real best way to both evaluate emissions and see if the car is running worth a crap.
The more I read into emissions requirements, the less I’m convinced there’s a meaningful difference between a 2010 and 2020 engine’s emissions system. I retract my original statement that a 2010 Polo wouldn’t have the same emissions equipment as a newer car. I suspect a newer engine would still have tighter requirements for sensor values though based on the constantly evolving emissions laws.
California has made their emissions requirements stricter and stricter every few years, but it seems like most of the big changes were pre-2000 that I could find (or future like the upcoming phasing out of ICEs).
Just as a summary of the emissions systems I was considering along with catalytic converters, which it turns out have all been around a long time:
What you’re saying is my understanding too. All those things are 80s tech that back then operated in separate isolated closed loop servo feedback when working right and pissed everyone off when something went wrong because they couldn’t just go out and fuck around with the carburetor until it worked right.
Part of what made obd2 so great for so long was that it gave you the actual measurement to pair with a symptom that would tell you what to test to figure out what part was messed up.